Poll: Who is the more terrible person?

Share your response and give a reason!

It was between Tony Soprano and Walter White and I ended up going with Walter White.

This is partially because with Tony we get the Melfi scenes that tend to humanize him. With Walter, you just see him do something terrible and the only explanation you have is "he's a sociopath." But the most recent episode of The Sopranos that I saw, in which

Spoiler:

, made me hesitate. Still, I think Tony cares more about his family than Walter does at this point in the series.

Hmmm... Since you're actively trying to mark a spoiler, I feel I should point out that it didn't work. I would delete those spaces within the bracket. Or just start from scratch by clicking on "Spoiler" under the "Others" button.


EDIT: Never mind, I edited it for you just in case someone accidentally sees it.

Can I vote for Walter even though I've seen next to none of these for comparison? (20 minutes of one episode of Dexter and all of the first and part of the second season of The Wire?) It's just hard to imagine anyone more terrible than old Walt! America doesn't stop uninformed voters!!!



There was no reason for that reindeer!

snowmania wrote:Can I vote for Walter even though I've seen next to none of these for comparison? (20 minutes of one episode of Dexter and all of the first and part of the second season of The Wire?) It's just hard to imagine anyone more terrible than old Walt! America doesn't stop uninformed voters!!!



There was no reason for that reindeer!

I should add you to the poll, Snow, just for the unnecessary use of that reindeer.

Walter may be terrible, but he knows it. Iirc, Dexter has some misplaced self righteousness, he's worse overall. Tony Soprano does genuinely care about his people, at least in the first few episodes, so he's not all bad. McNulty is redeemed by S4, and he does stop criminals, he's a classic anti-hero. I don't know the rest.

Dexter's the diagnosed sociopath, so...

tony soprano is also diagnosed as a sociopath, ultimately.

Tony Soprano. Walter White doesn't have the body count, and Dexter actually has morals, even if he considers them arbitrary.

i'd vote for tony as well, but i don't know vic mackey's deal. mcnulty doesn't even remotely deserve to be on this list, though. marlo stanfield, on the other hand...

glazomaniac wrote:i'd vote for tony as well, but i don't know vic mackey's deal. mcnulty doesn't even remotely deserve to be on this list, though. marlo stanfield, on the other hand...

Yeah, I was surprised to see McNulty's presence here. I've only seen the first season of Weeds but I'm also surprised to see Nancy Botwin listed as well.

Vic's pretty majorly sociopathic as well, though never "diagnosed" during the show.

Stephen77 wrote:I've only seen the first season of Weeds but I'm also surprised to see Nancy Botwin listed as well.

Well, Nancy gets much worse after the first season, but nowhere near these guys.

i think the theme is morally ambiguous protagonists, actually, and mcnulty and nancy certainly are. but mcnulty is definitely not in tony/walter/etc.'s league, and i don't think nancy is either (not seen weeds in many seasons, though).

al swearengen might fit the bill, being morally ambiguous and a protagonist (sorta), but he's got too much of a soft side to really rate against tony/walter/etc.

in a fist fight (note emphasis, everyone who's about to cite mercury fulminate), swearengen would whip the others without breaking a sweat, though.

glazomaniac wrote:in a fist fight (note emphasis, everyone who's about to cite mercury fulminate), swearengen would whip the others without breaking a sweat, though.

I'd put him at even odds with Dexter and Vic.

stingo wrote:Vic's pretty majorly sociopathic as well, though never "diagnosed" during the show.

I don't know. Sociopath seems like mis-categorizing him. I would say "completely devoid of empathy, and narcissistic" though.

Vic was an extremely likable guy, and could charm almost anybody when he wanted. He also definitely experiences emotions, whether he shows it or not. Which he does often actually, through misplaced anger.

It should be noted that I have not finished the Sopranos, but I have seen a fair bit, so I can reach a temporary view on this matter that should be considered subject to change. Walter White is far worse than Tony Soprano to me. Tony Soprano is a deeply bad and dangerous person who's been damaged beyond repair by his upbringing. He still feels like a profoundly complex person and he also has a self awareness Walt doesn't have. Deep down he knows that Meadow needs to get far away from him. Walt, on the other hand, I would consider to have crossed the realm into active evil. Walt's cancer was never that valid an excuse to enter the meth business. He rejected financial help that would have essentially eliminated any real need for him to compromise himself morally. Walter really wanted to enter the dark side all along because it would fuel his own ego and make him feel power. Over the course of the show, he's systematically dismantled his own humanity and grown increasingly, explicitly prideful about his most evil actions. He registers nothing but self satisfaction after his horrible act at the end of Season 4, and doesn't seem to mind that his only real friendship is founded on deception and exploitation. Walter has gotten to the point of rejoicing in evil for it's own sake, and for that reason I think he's worse than Tony Soprano.

Dexter is more of a shitty person than lots of people seem to think he is, but he has a code and doesn't do nearly as much damage as either of those characters. Mcnulty is just kind of a drunken asshole who's not in the same league of any of these other guys.

affrosponge88 wrote:He also definitely experiences emotions, whether he shows it or not. Which he does often actually, through misplaced anger.

This only part of that that doesn't immediately make me think "sociopathic", but I'm not sure it's enough to outweigh the rest. Thinking of it - was there any time we saw emotions from Vic that weren't negative?

stingo wrote:

affrosponge88 wrote:He also definitely experiences emotions, whether he shows it or not. Which he does often actually, through misplaced anger.

This only part of that that doesn't immediately make me think "sociopathic", but I'm not sure it's enough to outweigh the rest. Thinking of it - was there any time we saw emotions from Vic that weren't negative?

Usually when dealing with children. He seemed to have positive emotions when seeing them. He would literally come visit them when he wasn't supposed to, just to make himself feel better.

affrosponge88 wrote:just to make himself feel better.

Exactly.

sympathy for children and animals is mentioned explicitly in the sopranos as one of the signs of sociopathy. granted, that isn't exactly citing the dsm.

this could be an interesting exploration of ethics, actually. we've used both intentions and consequences as measures in this thread for how evil someone is.

glazomaniac wrote:sympathy for children and animals is mentioned explicitly in the sopranos as one of the signs of sociopathy. granted, that isn't exactly citing the dsm.

What, you missed the release of DSM IV: Sopranos Edition?

glazomaniac wrote:this could be an interesting exploration of ethics, actually. we've used both intentions and consequences as measures in this thread for how evil someone is.

very true. There's a different kind of "anti-hero." It hurts more when someone like McNulty screws up and hurts somebody (emotionally) than when Tony offs whatever mafia competitor or criminal.

This is not to say that I think they're equally bad, but just that you're right in that there's a difference.