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    The Dark Knight Rises

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    tym218

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    The Dark Knight Rises

    Post by tym218 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:40 pm

    I pre-ordered the special edition today. The one with the broken bat cowl.
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    Chicanery

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    Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Post by Chicanery on Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:27 pm

    I liked TDKR, it had some great cinematography, fight scenes and it was well paced, but the ideology behind it is really fucking right wing. Intentionally using imagery associated with the Russian Revolution to show Bane as the villian was a bit McCarthy, and the rich white guy saving everyone was a bit suspect. I mean, I could get past it all and enjoy it as a piece of dumb entertainment, but I find the actual tenets behind it nasty.

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    Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Post by tym218 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:15 pm

    If you recall the events of the film correctly, you'll remember that Bruce Wayne was broke at the time he saved Gotham in this third film.

    The only problems I had were continuity problems. When John Blake is talking to Bruce at Wayne Manor, he is sitting in one shot and standing in the next which always sticks out to me. Also, near the end, Bane tells some of his mercenaries to bring Talia to him. They are shown escorting her towards Bane and then in a following scene she is seen with Lucious Fox when Bruce returns to Gotham.
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    The Narrator Returns

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    Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Post by The Narrator Returns on Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:33 pm

    When watching it, I did have some concerns with the possibly right-wing messages it was conveying, but in the end, I'm not sure if its political message (if it had any) was Tea Party, or simply anti-crazy people. Bane's revolution was a farce, something he did less because he legimately wanted the poor to rise up, and more because he really likes spreading chaos and making people suffer. We never get to see how well the people Bane was supposedly liberating are doing, so we can't assume that he did it because he just wants those people to be treated well, damnit. He's a psychopath, and he wants people to feel his wrath.

    As for the rich white guy concerns, admittedly, my knowledge of Batman basically comes exclusively from the movies (not Batman & Robin, thank god), but couldn't that attributable to the source material? Plus, unlike the people the Tea Party and various Randians are supporting, Bruce Wayne knows what it's like to suffer (his time in Bane's prison, as well as his time out in the wilderness seen in Batman Begins), so he rises (hey, that's the name of the movie!) from the ashes of his life and defeats Bane. And at the end of the film, he
    Spoiler:
    gives that wealthy life up to go live with Selina Kyle, plus he helps out orphans by letting them stay in his mansion
    , so he clearly feels some need to give back to those who he saved.
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    Chicanery

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    Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Post by Chicanery on Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:48 pm

    I'm still not a hundred percent convinced, having Bane as insane makes me think Nolan was saying "boy, those Socialist sure are cray cray". The foreigners taking money from the good rich Americans trope is very right wing, and it seems to make the assumption that the only reason people want social change is for their own sake.
    I enjoyed it, but the politics were nasty.
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    Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Post by glazomaniac on Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:30 pm

    i thought if that if there was a political message in it, it was muddled and pointless... much like the plot of the film! which is my main complaint. i didn't enjoy it at all. but i went through this in the CZ.

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    Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Post by Gauephat on Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:42 pm

    It's so hard to tell if there was a coherent political message because everything in the film was so scattershot. It seemed like Nolan wanted to comment on everything (green energy, nuclear power, ethical matters in scientific research, the recession, mob mentality, class distinctions, etc.) and so ended up with nothing meaningful.

    It's pretty much the film's main problem in a nutshell.
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    Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Post by Traegonometry on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:05 pm

    I agree with all the people saying that the main problem thematically is that any of the political messages are weak and contradictory and generally not very thoughtful at all. It seems almost Randian if you look at it too closely, which I don't think Nolan intended.

    Also I thought Bruce coming back after his injury seemed almost too soon, like he hadn't really earned it. I remember the AV Club review saying the end was super satisfying, but I felt like it was just sort of the plot moving inevitably in that direction rather than Batman triumphantly taking back the Gotham. I thought the Dark Knight handled its ending better when it feels like, for the most part, Batman and Gotham City fought back against the Joker and won in spite of everything going to shit and it actually felt cathartic even though the ending was sort of a downer. In the Dark Knight Rises, everything ends well and it just seems sort of abrupt and unearned. Although on the whole I still liked the movie, I just felt like they could have tightened up the plot considerably.

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    Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Post by Gauephat on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:26 am

    One thing I didn't really see discussed all that much: how The Dark Knight Rises pretty much invalidated the end of The Dark Knight.

    Seriously, the big thematic finale of the former was that Gotham ended up rejecting anarchy and the manipulative fear of the Joker. That as a collective whole, they were good people worth saving. Then Bane shows up and it turns into the motherfucking French Revolution at the drop of a hat.
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    DavetheDouchebag

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    Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Post by DavetheDouchebag on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:41 am

    The Joker kind of retroactively won in this movie. I definitely noticed that. The Joker is last seen in the Dark Knight talking about how Harvey is his ace in the hole and he's going to use him as a weapon to break the city's spirit. Lo and behold, Harvey functions in exactly that role in this film, and the city never really redeems itself. I imagine the Joker's laughing about it somewhere.

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    Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Post by tym218 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:54 pm

    Chris Nolan has often said that there is no intended political message in TDKR.
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    Semi-bored torontonian

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    TDKR special edition

    Post by Semi-bored torontonian on Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:25 pm

    Does is come with a message of up to four words written by Christian Bale himself?

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    Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Post by tym218 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:53 am

    Just noticed something - In The Dark Knight Lucius Fox states that "spying on 30 million people isn't a part of my job description." while in TDKR Miranda Tate/Talia al Ghul says that Bruce is failing 12 million souls. That's an emigration rate of 2.5 million people a year. Damn, Gotham.

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    Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Post by Gauephat on Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:38 am

    tym218 wrote:Just noticed something - In The Dark Knight Lucius Fox states that "spying on 30 million people isn't a part of my job description." while in TDKR Miranda Tate/Talia al Ghul says that Bruce is failing 12 million souls. That's an emigration rate of 2.5 million people a year. Damn, Gotham.

    Metro Gotham vs. the central island?
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    thebongoes

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    Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Post by thebongoes on Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:16 pm

    tym218 wrote:Chris Nolan has often said that there is no intended political message in TDKR.

    Yeah, that's why I had no problem with the politics. Bane and Talia just wanted to destroy Gotham and finish what Ra's started. Bane didn't really believe what he was saying.

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    Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Post by Gauephat on Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:10 am

    tym218 wrote:Chris Nolan has often said that there is no intended political message in TDKR.

    Personally, I think that's a load of bullshit.

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    Re: The Dark Knight Rises

    Post by tym218 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:40 pm

    This blew my mind... I read an article about how Sandy Hook is referenced in TDKR and I thought it was one of those BS internet conspiracy theories. Then I saw at 1:58:41 commissioner Gordon points to a map talking about how they need to strike the bomb truck and the place he points to it labelled SANDY HOOK.

    http://gothamist.com/2012/12/18/sandy_hook_labeled_strike_zone_in_d.php

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