AV Club Communists

Login to your account to post in this board!

Latest topics

» Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)
by kingairwick Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:31 am

» General Comics || Spoilers
by Chicanery Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:17 am

» This Board Is Moving
by affrosponge88 Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:36 am

» The Dark Knight Rises
by tym218 Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:40 pm

» ATLAS SHRUGGED
by pulpcomics Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:30 pm

» Wes Anderson
by Semi-bored torontonian Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:34 am

» What are you listening to?
by kingairwick Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:26 pm

» What are you watching this holiday season?
by kingairwick Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:17 pm

» Homicide: Life on the Street
by digifreak642 Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:33 pm

» Likes No Longer Visible
by affrosponge88 Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:29 pm


    Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Share
    avatar
    affrosponge88
    Admin

    Posts : 146
    Points : 2228
    Reputation : 170
    Fav. Community Ep. : Remedial Chaos Theory
    Age : 26
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by affrosponge88 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:11 pm

    Slings & Arrows



    Total Seasons Aired: 3
    Total Episodes: 18

    Discuss the highly acclaimed Canadian drama that centers around a struggling Shakespeare troupe...


    Last edited by affrosponge88 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:18 am; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    Good member and bad member left for the day. I'm a different kind of member.
    avatar
    affrosponge88
    Admin

    Posts : 146
    Points : 2228
    Reputation : 170
    Fav. Community Ep. : Remedial Chaos Theory
    Age : 26
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Slings & Arrows Week 1 Discussion

    Post by affrosponge88 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:02 am

    Slings & Arrows Week 1 Discussion



    Hello all, and welcome to Week 1 of our official Slings & Arrows discussion. This week we will be discussing the first two episodes of season one. There is no guidelines for these discussions, so feel free to post your thoughts or wait for somebody else to post, and reply to those. This is an open discussion that will remain open until the next discussion starts, next Sunday. The only note I have is this: if you are a veteran of this series, please do not reveal events that have yet to happen in our timeline, since most of us are watching for the first time, although I don't think this will be a problem. We do not have to mark spoilers in these discussions, for anyone should not be reading these posts who haven't watched the series.

    This week's episodes:

    • "Oliver's Dream:" After recovering from a mental breakdown while performing Hamlet that left him hospitalized and without an acting career, Geoffrey Tennant is directing his cobbled together, cash-strapped theater company in a production of Shakespeare's play The Tempest. Meanwhile Oliver Welles, Geoffrey's burnt-out ex-director/best friend is directing a well funded but artistically bankrupt version of A Midsummer Night's Dream at the prestigious New Burbage Shakespearean Festival.

    • "Geoffrey's Return:" Geoffrey returns to New Burbage, for Oliver's funeral while the festival's business manager Richard Smith-Jones aided by American Holly Day scrambles to assume control. Geoffrey is surprised by a letter containing Oliver's last request. Meanwhile aspiring actress Kate McNab sneaks off to Toronto for a commercial audition and makes an unsuspected connection on the bus ride home.


    Let the discussion begin!


    _________________
    Good member and bad member left for the day. I'm a different kind of member.
    avatar
    affrosponge88
    Admin

    Posts : 146
    Points : 2228
    Reputation : 170
    Fav. Community Ep. : Remedial Chaos Theory
    Age : 26
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by affrosponge88 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:13 am

    These first two episodes are a great start to the series, I thought. The pilot did a fantastic job introducing the sprawling set of characters, both major and minor, that it was even hard to keep up with at times (something that's not a detriment but an acknowledgement of its commitment to show all facets of the theater). The show seems pretty adept at creating very memorable sequences, and it's no surprise that the pilot episode opens with one. Geoffrey giving his monologue about the power of theater and Shakespeare's The Tempest is not only powerful imagery, but a subtle foreshadowing of the act of nature that will restore him back to the theater he left long ago.

    The rest of the pilot concerns itself with showing our characters in action, as it is opening night of their production of A Midsummer Night's Dream (my personal favorite Shakespeare play). All of the characters get a chance to shine, and just when you're starting to get comfortable, they kill off the character that (besides Geoffrey) ostensibly seemed like the main character. It's a pretty daring concept to end your pilot episode on, but it's ultimate necessary in getting Geoffrey to come back to the theater. Not to mention, Oliver seemed to be on his last legs anyway, so at least he died before he could get any more miserable.

    The second episode, however, was much better. It was a great display of how funny this show can be, because there were a lot of great lines from Richard amidst all the grieving ("Anna, I can't comfort you... I'm on hold."). The funeral was also a highlight in being a total disaster, from the priest with his own agenda, to Geoffrey himself, literally giving the board what they wanted to hear in looking into the theater's future and where it's headed. But the point that completely sold me on this show: Oliver's skull. What a wonderfully dark note to end on, as he parades it in front of Ellen, informing her of his new position, much to her vexation. Such drama!

    A few side notes:
    -I LOVE the main titles, as I think it fits the show's theatrical atmosphere perfectly.
    -Not quite sure how I feel about the Jack Crew character, for I felt that actor and the character to be the weakest part of these two episodes, but I'm withholding judgement to see where this goes (apart from the obvious road it's headed down).
    -Favorite minor character: the woman who does the lighting. Her reactions to everybody are priceless.

    There's a LOT more to say about these episodes, but I don't want to ramble.


    _________________
    Good member and bad member left for the day. I'm a different kind of member.

    Capt. Blicero
    Captain

    Posts : 12
    Points : 1898
    Reputation : 34
    Age : 100
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Capt. Blicero on Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:52 am

    I would just like to say the show sorta reminded me of Party Down but against the backdrop of Shakespeare instead of Hollywood. They both had two seasons of just a few episodes and even fewer viewers. Also, the music between scenes sounds like Party Down.
    avatar
    Semi-bored torontonian

    Posts : 16
    Points : 1900
    Reputation : 40
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Slings and Arrows

    Post by Semi-bored torontonian on Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:05 pm

    I liked the first two episodes, but I can't say I loved them. Still, that's a huge progress over pretty much any other Canadian show I've seen.

    I had heard about the show before, but for some reason I thought it would be more of a drama, so I was somewhat confused and pleasantly surprised by the comic tone. The music is amazingly similar to Mark Mothersbaugh's score for The Royal Tenenbaums.

    Other fun things for me to watch: trying to spot Toronto locations which I know - a lot of the theater scenes appear to have been shot at the Passe Muraille Theatre, though the exteriors appear to be of the Royal Alexandra. Toronto is cool city to film in, even if today a lot of the places in the show would be choked with condo towers.

    Other things I enjoyed: complaints about the corporatization of spectacles. One of the things that baffled me when I came to Canada was how, when you go to the theatre or the opera, the playbill is 80% ads for sponsors. I knew a lot of the companies rely on donations and subscriptions, but it was still very confusing to see how the actual play takes a literal backseat in the playbill to TD's latest insurance product.

    More observations (sorry, this is incredibly disjointed, because I'm insanely busy and I had no time to think it through). I liked the little surreal touches, like Oliver "waking up" at the morgue; and the way the morticians' banter parallels the gravedigger's scene from Hamlet.

    Overall, the show has a low-key, laid back vibe that is very enjoyable. Looking forward to seeing more.

    What did everybody else think?
    avatar
    Stephen77

    Posts : 79
    Points : 2032
    Reputation : 76
    Fav. Community Ep. : Calligraphy or Mixology: you can't make me choose!
    Age : 27
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Stephen77 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:34 pm

    Sadly, that priest's sermon reminded me somewhat of something that actually happened at a funeral I attended. Back in the summer of 2009, my friend's boyfriend drowned. He had no religion but his mother attended the Brethren church, which is a fundamentalist church here, and his funeral was held there. Now, the Brethren church doesn't actually have a priest or minister, but just a group of random guys who go up and preach (I grew up in this awful church by the way). So during the funeral, with many students and recently graduated students who do not go to this church attending, they spoke and took it as an opportunity to preach the church's agenda. They basically made the whole thing all about how you have to be "saved" or you'll go to hell, instead of paying tribute to this guy's life. Many of my friends thought it was a travesty, especially given our deceased friend's non-existent religious views. It was less explicit and less extreme than the situation here and certainly not comedic in any way, but it reminded me of that.

    Anyway, back to Slings and Arrows: first off, as I've said on tinychat, I liked the sense of character history established in the first episode. You get a real sense of the depth of the relationship between Geoffrey, Oliver and Ellen. But nothing is made too explicit either; just enough remains a mystery.

    I also thought that funeral scene was perhaps the highlight of the series thus far. I thought it was pretty explicit in suggesting the funeral as a theatrical performance and some of the characters exploit it, for their own gain, as exactly that (i.e. Richard, who sees both the theatre and the funeral as a means for his own business gains, and that young actress, whose name I don't recall, who performs the sonnet).

    Like SBT, I also like how the show explored the business side of theatre. I don't really have much to add there right now, I don't think, but I imagine the show will be quite critical of how business, and the quest for profit, impedes and hinders the development of art (or maybe not; I'll just look forward to how the show continues to explore the relationship between business and art).

    I'll try to have more to say in response to other comments.
    avatar
    DavetheDouchebag

    Posts : 16
    Points : 1888
    Reputation : 29
    Fav. Community Ep. : Mixology Certification
    Age : 22
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by DavetheDouchebag on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:00 pm

    Watching these episodes again, I was pleased to find how well they held up for me. I was really impressed by how well the characters were developed over the course of just these first two episodes. The show only gradually moves Geoffrey to the center of the plot, which allows them to build the ensemble right from the very beginning rather than initially focusing only on the most crucial characters. This really allows the whole cast an opportunity to shine. As Stephen said,the show immediately establishes the depth of the history between Geoffrey, Oliver, and Ellen. The withholding of explicit details about this relationship creates a certain feeling of mystery that serves the show well

    The war between art and commerce in the world of Slings and Arrows is established early, and I like the way the show deals with it. Richard isn't a villain of the show exactly, but he's certainly on the wrong side of the war, while someone like Geoffrey, who cares more about the art of theater than almost anyone on Slings, is clearly shown to have a number of issues of his own, and the show allows a level of ambiguity as to whether his insanity has lingered with the appearance of Oliver as a ghost.

    I agree with Stephen that the funeral scene is a real triumph. Not a single character delivers a speech that's remotely appropriate for the occasion. Geoffrey's speech is more an elegy for the spirit of the festival than it is an elegy for Oliver himself. The sonnets the actress performs are almost grotesquely inappropriate for the occasion, and completely delivered for the purpose of climbing the ranks. The Priest's speech was obviously a total travesty, although part of me can't help but feel it was poetic justice against Richard, who just wanted a comforting mention of God out of a sense of social propriety rather than respect for what likely would have been Oliver's wishes. On the subject of Oliver's wishes, what Oliver wants done with his skull is a great gag, and actually seems like something someone like Oliver would ask for.

    I look forward to hearing more about what the newbies think about this show. I apologize if this post was disorganized.


    Last edited by DavetheDouchebag on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    Stephen77

    Posts : 79
    Points : 2032
    Reputation : 76
    Fav. Community Ep. : Calligraphy or Mixology: you can't make me choose!
    Age : 27
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Stephen77 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:14 pm

    Great stuff, Daver! It is hilarious watching Richard and the others panic during the priest's speech. Poetic justice, indeed.

    As for Oliver's skull, I like how that seems to be a reference to the scene in Hamlet, where Prince Hamlet delivers a monologue to the skull of a jester. The skull serves a different role here, but I have to think it's a reference to that.

    Also, what does everyone think of Rachel McAdams' character?
    avatar
    DavetheDouchebag

    Posts : 16
    Points : 1888
    Reputation : 29
    Fav. Community Ep. : Mixology Certification
    Age : 22
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by DavetheDouchebag on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:19 pm

    I think that Geoffrey told the morticians that Oliver's wishes were that his skull would be taken out and used in all future productions of Hamlet, so I think the reference to that scene is fairly direct.

    I remember enjoying Rachel McAdam's character a lot when I first watched the show, but she didn't stand out to me much on rewatch. She seems to be the closest thing to an audience surrogate, perhaps, and as such serves an important function for the narrative. I think she gets more interesting as the season goes on, if I may say so without spoiling.
    avatar
    Stephen77

    Posts : 79
    Points : 2032
    Reputation : 76
    Fav. Community Ep. : Calligraphy or Mixology: you can't make me choose!
    Age : 27
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Stephen77 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:33 pm

    DavetheDouchebag wrote:I think that Geoffrey told the morticians that Oliver's wishes were that his skull would be taken out and used in all future productions of Hamlet, so I think the reference to that scene is fairly direct.

    Ah yes, that is correct Dave!

    Another mirroring of Shakespeare by the way: the two old actors who basically serve as the chorus.
    avatar
    Semi-bored torontonian

    Posts : 16
    Points : 1900
    Reputation : 40
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Slings and Arrows

    Post by Semi-bored torontonian on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:39 pm

    Apparently two of my posts got eaten Crying or Very sad

    Anyway, re: Oliver's skull - this is a direct reference to Hamlet. In the play Yorick (the skull's owner) wasn't just a jester: he was also Hamlet's friend and mentor. This is of course what Oliver was in the show. He may have been a buffoon, but there's clearly a profound and personal history between him and Geoffrey.

    I'm not Paul Gross' biggest fan, but I have to give him props for selling Geoffrey's conflicted emotions perfectly.

    P.S. Hi, Dave! It's so great to see you and your charming, charming avatar.
    avatar
    DavetheDouchebag

    Posts : 16
    Points : 1888
    Reputation : 29
    Fav. Community Ep. : Mixology Certification
    Age : 22
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by DavetheDouchebag on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:49 pm

    SBT! It's lovely to see you as well. I love your avatar as well, btw. I got a chance to see Holy Motors a week or two ago and I really, really enjoyed it.

    I like your analysis of the use of Oliver's skull. It makes sense on a surface level that someone like Oliver would want his skull to be used in the production, but the metaphorical level is a good example of how well Slings integrates Shakespeare into the story. The show never lets his work merely exist in the background; it always exists as a powerful force in the lives of the characters and on a metaphorical level as well.

    Paul Gross is a little broad, but I think he's the right choice for the part of a sort of dramatic, possibly crazy actor.

    avatar
    Stephen77

    Posts : 79
    Points : 2032
    Reputation : 76
    Fav. Community Ep. : Calligraphy or Mixology: you can't make me choose!
    Age : 27
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Stephen77 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:49 pm

    I forgot that Yorick served as a mentor to Prince Hamlet. It's been a few years since I've read or seen the play.

    Also, I'm really excited to see what this show does next. These episodes were very very good but I think they've done an even better job setting up future episodes. It's roped me in, for sure. I'm very excited, and Todd saying that each episode, for the most part, is better than the last only adds to that excitement.

    And one more thing: who's my Rosencrantz and Guildenstern? I want my Rosencrantz and Guildenstern!
    avatar
    affrosponge88
    Admin

    Posts : 146
    Points : 2228
    Reputation : 170
    Fav. Community Ep. : Remedial Chaos Theory
    Age : 26
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by affrosponge88 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:21 pm

    Paul Gross is actually my favorite part of the series so far, though I don't think I've seen him in anything else prior to watching this series. I don't mind Rachel McAdams' character, but I don't know how I feel about the Jack Crew character yet, for he seems the least developed, partly due to his minimal screen time so far, partly due to the stereotyped role he is playing.

    One thing I like about the show's portrayal of art vs. commerce, is that Richard doesn't seem to be outright on one side of the fence or the other. He's clearly being seduced (sex sells, kiddos!) by the business side, but it's evident that he's in the business of theater because of the love he once had for it was real, no matter how much of it has been eaten away by commercialization.


    _________________
    Good member and bad member left for the day. I'm a different kind of member.
    avatar
    Semi-bored torontonian

    Posts : 16
    Points : 1900
    Reputation : 40
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Slings and Arrows

    Post by Semi-bored torontonian on Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:46 pm

    Re: Paul Gross

    I'll admit that my problems with the guy are so subjective to be almost irrational. He's sort of a Canadian institution, and I always found his matinee idol good looks to be rather bland. But I think he's very good in the part. I like him better washed up like this.


    One more thing: the catastrophically middlebrow production of A Midsummer's Night Dream captures everything I resent about the type of theater that's being made here: it's slick, competent and just flashy enough to make everyone feel that they're witnessing ART! Good stuff is being done in smaller venues, but the big-budget crowd pleasing productions almost all look like that.

    P.S. Great to hear that Dave has both seen and liked Holy Motors. Best movie I've seen all year, hands down.

    Gauephat

    Posts : 20
    Points : 1887
    Reputation : 22
    Join date : 2012-11-27

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Gauephat on Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:18 pm

    This show dates itself by mentioning that the Leafs were in the playoffs.
    avatar
    Stephen77

    Posts : 79
    Points : 2032
    Reputation : 76
    Fav. Community Ep. : Calligraphy or Mixology: you can't make me choose!
    Age : 27
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Stephen77 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:29 pm

    I realized just the other day that the Leafs were the only team in the entire NHL not to make the playoffs once after the 2004-05 lockout.
    avatar
    affrosponge88
    Admin

    Posts : 146
    Points : 2228
    Reputation : 170
    Fav. Community Ep. : Remedial Chaos Theory
    Age : 26
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by affrosponge88 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:30 pm

    Re: Re: Paul Gross

    Both the character and actor remind me of Six Feet Under's Billy Chenowith, since they've both look oddly similar, and suffer mental breakdowns. It's almost kind of eerie to me, but then again, I've probably just seen way too much Six Feet Under.


    _________________
    Good member and bad member left for the day. I'm a different kind of member.

    Capt. Blicero
    Captain

    Posts : 12
    Points : 1898
    Reputation : 34
    Age : 100
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Capt. Blicero on Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:51 pm

    No, I agree on Billy.

    I feel like discussing art and commerce is way too easy. It's certainly been discussed in many different aspects and industries.

    What is Oliver to Geoffrey? A father figure would be too simplistic. I know this is a well that's used far too often, but I'm thinking of Obi-Wan and Luke Skywalker. There's a master-apprentice relationship, even though much of it has been buried for years. Oliver has failed in his quest for high art (or at least he feels like that), and Geoffrey represents that bit of glory in the past as well as the future. Geoffrey is the dangerous side of art Oliver left for the "comfortable" world of commercial theater, and having been taken from the corporeal world perhaps Oliver can now live vicariously through him.

    I'm not sure what Oliver represents for Geoffrey. It reminded him of a terrible part of his life, but also the highest point in a play; and he's dedicated his life to crafting plays. I'm not sure how Oliver will be used from here on out -- his skull will be making appearances? -- but perhaps Geoffrey has to confront a part of his life he thought he had never had to and reconcile whatever happened. I think Oliver pushed him too far, and it drove Geoffrey insane and drove Oliver away from serious plays.
    avatar
    affrosponge88
    Admin

    Posts : 146
    Points : 2228
    Reputation : 170
    Fav. Community Ep. : Remedial Chaos Theory
    Age : 26
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by affrosponge88 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:44 am

    Capt. Blicero wrote:

    What is Oliver to Geoffrey?

    That's a good question, Capt. It's one that I'm not sure if the show is ever going to answer fully. It's either not yet revealed its cards, or is purposefully leaving that ambiguous for the sake of dramatic tension. Because all of the scenes we see of Oliver are now figments of Geoffrey's imagination, I'd doubt that we'll learn too much more. But we shall see.


    _________________
    Good member and bad member left for the day. I'm a different kind of member.
    avatar
    Stephen77

    Posts : 79
    Points : 2032
    Reputation : 76
    Fav. Community Ep. : Calligraphy or Mixology: you can't make me choose!
    Age : 27
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Stephen77 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:48 am

    You've seen more than me, so you have more perspective on this, but do you think Oliver is just a figment of Geoffrey's imagination, or are there more supernatural elements at play here?
    avatar
    affrosponge88
    Admin

    Posts : 146
    Points : 2228
    Reputation : 170
    Fav. Community Ep. : Remedial Chaos Theory
    Age : 26
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by affrosponge88 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:54 am

    Stephen77 wrote:You've seen more than me, so you have more perspective on this, but do you think Oliver is just a figment of Geoffrey's imagination, or are there more supernatural elements at play here?

    What's funny about this question is that it's literally discussed head on (haha, "head" on!) internally in Geoffrey's mind in a future episode... Having said that, there's honestly arguments to be made for both camps. Being that Geoffrey has a history with mental illness, it's an easy route to go with that it's just a product of that. However, if we're to believe in the Shakespeare parallels at work here (of which even more will come up), then supernatural elements are absolutely on the table. I would say my meter is reading into figments of his imagination for now, but I'm not a skeptic in the slightest, and might even change my opinion as the series goes on.


    _________________
    Good member and bad member left for the day. I'm a different kind of member.
    avatar
    Stephen77

    Posts : 79
    Points : 2032
    Reputation : 76
    Fav. Community Ep. : Calligraphy or Mixology: you can't make me choose!
    Age : 27
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Stephen77 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:01 am

    Well, I think in Hamlet, it's entirely possible that the ghost of his father is a figment of Prince Hamlet's imagination. I think the play leaves that open to interpretation. I mean, it's not like Hamlet is exactly mentally stable either.
    avatar
    affrosponge88
    Admin

    Posts : 146
    Points : 2228
    Reputation : 170
    Fav. Community Ep. : Remedial Chaos Theory
    Age : 26
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by affrosponge88 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:08 am

    Stephen77 wrote:Well, I think in Hamlet, it's entirely possible that the ghost of his father is a figment of Prince Hamlet's imagination. I think the play leaves that open to interpretation. I mean, it's not like Hamlet is exactly mentally stable either.

    Oh whoops, I didn't mean Hamlet specifically, just that ghosts are definitely a device in Shakespeare works.


    _________________
    Good member and bad member left for the day. I'm a different kind of member.
    avatar
    Stephen77

    Posts : 79
    Points : 2032
    Reputation : 76
    Fav. Community Ep. : Calligraphy or Mixology: you can't make me choose!
    Age : 27
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Stephen77 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:15 am

    Ah yes. I am the one at fault actually. I assumed you were just talking about Hamlet for some reason.
    avatar
    affrosponge88
    Admin

    Posts : 146
    Points : 2228
    Reputation : 170
    Fav. Community Ep. : Remedial Chaos Theory
    Age : 26
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by affrosponge88 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:19 am

    Stephen77 wrote:Ah yes. I am the one at fault actually. I assumed you were just talking about Hamlet for some reason.

    Let's share the blame, buddy. I never meant to hurt you.


    _________________
    Good member and bad member left for the day. I'm a different kind of member.
    avatar
    Semi-bored torontonian

    Posts : 16
    Points : 1900
    Reputation : 40
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Semi-bored torontonian on Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:39 am

    Capt. Blicero wrote:

    What is Oliver to Geoffrey? A father figure would be too simplistic.

    I don't think it's simplistic at all; in fact, it's very edible. Oliver is a father figure, a mentor and a figure of unbearable authority. In other words, it's exactly what his father's ghost was for Hamlet: a constant reminder of duties and impossible to meet standards.
    avatar
    glazomaniac

    Posts : 47
    Points : 1949
    Reputation : 56
    Fav. Community Ep. : Paradigms of Human Memory
    Age : 36
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by glazomaniac on Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:55 am

    so my vibe in that scene where geoffrey asks ellen to make a baby with him that oliver was a little sexually jelly of ellen/geoffrey is way off base and probably wishful thinking?

    Capt. Blicero
    Captain

    Posts : 12
    Points : 1898
    Reputation : 34
    Age : 100
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Capt. Blicero on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:36 am

    I hope the show doesn't get too cutesy with his fun dead friend. That's kinda gimmicky. But I feel like the show won't do that. Also, the father figure angle doesn't work too well. Unbearable authority? That didn't seem like it at all. What authority did he have, other than being a part of the Hamlet to end all Hamlet's? And the father card is thrown out way too much. Boring cliche!

    Random thoughts:
    Redheaded actress = Jenna from 30 Rock. There was even an inappropriate song outburst.

    Two old guys who sing the theme song = two old guys in the balcony in the Muppets.

    I really like the unhinged energy the actor brings to Geoffrey.

    Geoffrey is the classic fiction instigator like McMurphy in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. He's thrown into a new situation (although it's not entirely new) and starts a chain of new events to break up the tired establishment while trying to cajole the underutilized, pliable underlings into rising up against evil management.

    And am I the only one who doesn't like the new girl/American star subplot? It's not doing anything.
    avatar
    UnregisteredGuyNamedEric

    Posts : 30
    Points : 1939
    Reputation : 59
    Fav. Community Ep. : Cooperative Calligraphy
    Age : 33
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by UnregisteredGuyNamedEric on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:45 am

    Not at all, Glazo. Oliver was definitely attracted to or even somewhat in love with Geoffery. I don't want to make their relationship seem simplified (it's certainly not something that's harped on, but it's definitely strongly hinted at), but Geoffrey's inability to reciprocate or even really understand that attraction is central to their twisted and painful relationship, IMO.

    Also I'm pretty sure Oliver Welles = Laurence Olivier + Orson Welles, the two most famous interpreters of Shakespeare onscreen.


    Gauephat

    Posts : 20
    Points : 1887
    Reputation : 22
    Join date : 2012-11-27

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Gauephat on Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:25 am

    Stephen77 wrote:I realized just the other day that the Leafs were the only team in the entire NHL not to make the playoffs once after the 2004-05 lockout.

    Since the first season aired in 2003 and the Leafs were playing the Senators, I cherish the hope that in this alternate universe the Sens won a playoff series against them.

    Also, re: Paul Gross, I have fond memories of Due South. So did, randomly, some British people I met. Apparently it was fairly popular over there (both of them also knew what David Marciano was up to).
    avatar
    Stephen77

    Posts : 79
    Points : 2032
    Reputation : 76
    Fav. Community Ep. : Calligraphy or Mixology: you can't make me choose!
    Age : 27
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Stephen77 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:15 am

    Capt. Blicero wrote:I hope the show doesn't get too cutesy with his fun dead friend. That's kinda gimmicky. But I feel like the show won't do that. Also, the father figure angle doesn't work too well. Unbearable authority? That didn't seem like it at all. What authority did he have, other than being a part of the Hamlet to end all Hamlet's? And the father card is thrown out way too much. Boring cliche!

    Yeah, Oliver certainly did not come across as an "unbearable authority" to Geoffrey in that flashback sequence prior to his death in the first episode.
    avatar
    Semi-bored torontonian

    Posts : 16
    Points : 1900
    Reputation : 40
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Semi-bored torontonian on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:42 pm

    Stephen77 wrote:
    Yeah, Oliver certainly did not come across as an "unbearable authority" to Geoffrey in that flashback sequence prior to his death in the first episode.

    I was referring to Hamlet's dad's role in the play. The play hinges on Hamlet's inability to decide what exactly he is supposed to do: avenge his father (who, by the way, is also named Hamlet) or go off on his own. The ghost (whether real or not) puts terrible pressure on him because it turns the choice he has to make into one between an idealized role he can't fill (the vengeful son and future king) and a personal identity he feels is not up to par.

    I haven't seen the rest of the show, so I obviously don't know how it will handle Oliver's "apparitions." But from what I've seen the writers are pretty deft at echoing the basic beats of Hamlet: Oliver calls Geoffrey with a confused, drunken cry for help, then Geoffrey is suddenly thrust in Oliver's role - but it's a part he's not quite sure he can fill. Of course, there's no vengeance plot, but it's still about measuring up to a role model whom the hero both resents and idealizes.

    Like I said: so edible...
    avatar
    Stephen77

    Posts : 79
    Points : 2032
    Reputation : 76
    Fav. Community Ep. : Calligraphy or Mixology: you can't make me choose!
    Age : 27
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Stephen77 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:04 pm

    Just watched the third episode. I'll refrain from saying anything more about it other than it was the most explicitly comedic episode thus far.
    avatar
    Traegonometry

    Posts : 23
    Points : 1911
    Reputation : 45
    Fav. Community Ep. : ;)
    Age : 101
    Join date : 2012-11-27

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Traegonometry on Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:27 pm

    Holy shit.

    So, I went a little ahead and finished the first season, and hey, this is a great show. I'm sorry for being so negative at the beginning, guys. So sorry. I'll stick to discussion of the episodes at hand on Sunday, but I'd love to talk about the season as a whole later on.
    avatar
    UnregisteredGuyNamedEric

    Posts : 30
    Points : 1939
    Reputation : 59
    Fav. Community Ep. : Cooperative Calligraphy
    Age : 33
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by UnregisteredGuyNamedEric on Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:07 am

    One of the coolest things about Slings & Arrows is how each season tells a whole story. Because they're only 6 eps long, everything is meant in advance to be part of the bigger, movie-like story, there's no sudden adapting on the fly.

    Also, each episode is kind of a separate part of the bigger tale, there isn't a formula. (Well, there is in the sense of each season being structured somewhat similarly, but I mean each ep within a season is something different from the other eps). The best thing about S1, IMO, is discovering how much different things seem as the story advances.

    I would hope this vague praise isn't a spoiler in any way.
    avatar
    affrosponge88
    Admin

    Posts : 146
    Points : 2228
    Reputation : 170
    Fav. Community Ep. : Remedial Chaos Theory
    Age : 26
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by affrosponge88 on Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:31 am

    Slings & Arrows Week 2 Discussion



    Hello all, and welcome to Week 2 of our official Slings & Arrows discussion. This week we will be discussing episodes 3 and 4 of season one. There is no guidelines for these discussions, so feel free to post your thoughts or wait for somebody else to post, and reply to those. This is an open discussion that will remain open until the next discussion starts, next Sunday. The only note I have is this: if you are a veteran of this series, please do not reveal events that have yet to happen in our timeline, since most of us are watching for the first time, although I don't think this will be a problem. We do not have to mark spoilers in these discussions, for anyone should not be reading these posts who haven't watched the series.

    This week's episodes:

    • "Madness in Great Ones:" Having been named interim creative director of the festival, Geoffrey wisely cedes directing the festival's new production of Hamlet to a visiting director, but is distressed when the board chooses his long-time nemesis Darren Nichols. Richard and Holly decamp to Toronto for an evening of "real theater" as a break from New Burbage. Kate and visiting movie star Jack get closer.

    • "Outrageous Fortune:" Following his drunken duel, Geoffrey is in jail. Ellen's young biker beau punishes those that offended the honor of her home. Jack and Kate grew closer during their night under the stars following the party and when rehearsal is canceled...


    Let the discussion begin!


    Last edited by affrosponge88 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    Good member and bad member left for the day. I'm a different kind of member.
    avatar
    Semi-bored torontonian

    Posts : 16
    Points : 1900
    Reputation : 40
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Slings and Arrows, part deux

    Post by Semi-bored torontonian on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:05 pm

    Well, I am certainly loving this show more than I did last week! I think it took me a while to get used to the atmosphere: it's part farce - how great was that drunken fight between Geoffrey and Darren? - and part drama. And the farce can get pretty silly sometimes, which I'm enjoying more and more.

    I'm not quite feeling the boardroom plot though. And the McAdams story is just meh (though she is really, really pretty).
    avatar
    Stephen77

    Posts : 79
    Points : 2032
    Reputation : 76
    Fav. Community Ep. : Calligraphy or Mixology: you can't make me choose!
    Age : 27
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Stephen77 on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:15 pm

    Did the thought ever occur to anyone else that Richard and Holly mirrors MacBeth and Lady MacBeth?
    avatar
    Semi-bored torontonian

    Posts : 16
    Points : 1900
    Reputation : 40
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Semi-bored torontonian on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:19 pm

    Elaborate.
    avatar
    Traegonometry

    Posts : 23
    Points : 1911
    Reputation : 45
    Fav. Community Ep. : ;)
    Age : 101
    Join date : 2012-11-27

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Traegonometry on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:36 pm

    Holly pushes Richard to do things he's not exactly comfortable with, she helps him compromise his morals. That being said, we also don't know exactly how Richard feels about all of this so we don't know that it's much different from what he'd do if he was more proactive.

    She also does the dirty work for him in planning the changes to New Burbage, dealing with the board, etc. Although we're not seeing any of Lady Macbeth's guilt, we also haven't seen Holly do much harm yet.


    Last edited by Traegonometry on Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
    avatar
    Stephen77

    Posts : 79
    Points : 2032
    Reputation : 76
    Fav. Community Ep. : Calligraphy or Mixology: you can't make me choose!
    Age : 27
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Stephen77 on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:40 pm

    Well, you get the sense that she's just using him, giving him the illusion that he has any sense of control whereas, in reality, she's the one dictating the entire plot. I don't know. I just get the sense that there's some parallel there.

    Edit: And what Chris said.
    avatar
    affrosponge88
    Admin

    Posts : 146
    Points : 2228
    Reputation : 170
    Fav. Community Ep. : Remedial Chaos Theory
    Age : 26
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by affrosponge88 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:05 pm

    These two episodes really elevated my love for the series. So many great moments, that it's hard to name them all. First thing's first: Maria. I chose her as this week's picture, because she's a great example of just how economized these scripts are at giving every character, no matter how minor, a chance to shine. Her outburst at the party was hilarious, and was obviously a long time coming. Geoffrey's juvenile antics are overdramatic, but also felt very believable for me, because when you combine: mental illness + alcohol + the personality of a trouble artist = a sword fight (with prop swords, no less) is the least of credibility straining things the writers could come up with.

    One thing that I love about this show, though I'm not sure I'll be able to articulate it very well is it's one of the most "adult" dramas I've ever seen. This isn't to say that the content is not "suitable" for children (though, for obvious reasons, some of it isn't), but that it really seems to depict the way adults deal with their problems (no matter how juvenile they can be) and interact with eachother. I think this will become even clearer as the series goes on, but that's something that jumps out at me, that I can't quite put my finger on what it is exactly.

    I also like that the show exists in a stark reality, in that it's neither overly cynical or optimistic. It has a very realistic outlook on "life" and what it means to certain people. Geoffrey's quip when the guard asks him if he's a suicide risk, to which he responds: "Isn't everybody?" is witty, but also admits a sad but earnest truth, in that (at least, to some people), we're never truly in a right state of mind. We're really happy with what we have. Since it's Geoffrey who points this out, it's also a bit of irony that the man who talks to dead people might be the sanest one on the show.

    I'll definitely have more to say come episodes 5 and 6, so I can't wait to get to those. These episodes are a lot of fun, but are ultimately just that: fun, and set-up for the final two episodes of the season.


    _________________
    Good member and bad member left for the day. I'm a different kind of member.
    avatar
    Semi-bored torontonian

    Posts : 16
    Points : 1900
    Reputation : 40
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Semi-bored torontonian on Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:51 pm

    I really liked the scenes with Geoffrey in jail - Gross struck a great balance between bluster and reflection (in fact, the more I watch the show, the more I begin to think that I may not have seen Gross in the proper roles, as he really is quite good here).

    But I'm not sure if the show is that realistic. If I was to really nitpick, I'd say that the only drawback I could find is the predictability of some of the basic plots (young starlet has an affair with movie star! famous director is a conceited blowhard! actors are crazy and volatile!). The show does manage to strike moments of emotional honesty quite often (see above), but overall, I think it's purposefully theatrical in its structure, which would make it by definition not realistic.

    Or maybe I'm misreading your comment.
    avatar
    affrosponge88
    Admin

    Posts : 146
    Points : 2228
    Reputation : 170
    Fav. Community Ep. : Remedial Chaos Theory
    Age : 26
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by affrosponge88 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:14 am

    Semi-bored torontonian wrote:

    Or maybe I'm misreading your comment.

    You're not misreading my comment, for I am not articulating it as well as I'd like. I think what you said about "emotional honesty" is more apt at describing what I'm thinking. I'd also like to point out though, that I kind of liked how they handled these "predictable" storylines, in that they feel predictable to me, because they're only natural. The Jack/Kate storyline never felt like it was forced, or at least my expectations for it (for it to get soapy) were subverted into quite pleasant territory, and rarely does the show's dramatic beats rest on that plotline alone. I think it's in the way that the storyline simply exists for no other reason than just that those two characters would be attracted to each other, made it feel more organic to me, than theater.

    But you're right when you say "emotional honesty," because there are so many scenes where it "felt" real, despite whatever events were being depicted (including some very few melodramatic ones).


    _________________
    Good member and bad member left for the day. I'm a different kind of member.
    avatar
    affrosponge88
    Admin

    Posts : 146
    Points : 2228
    Reputation : 170
    Fav. Community Ep. : Remedial Chaos Theory
    Age : 26
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by affrosponge88 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:27 am

    I think another comment to be made about the show, is that the show almost seems to suggest there's a bit of theatricality to life itself. We all tend to overreact to things from time to time, and setting a drama that centers around a Shakespearean troupe, only invites these kind of implications.


    _________________
    Good member and bad member left for the day. I'm a different kind of member.
    avatar
    Semi-bored torontonian

    Posts : 16
    Points : 1900
    Reputation : 40
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Semi-bored torontonian on Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:43 am

    Yeah, theatricality (the good kind) is more apt, I think. Even if the situations are sometimes exaggerated, the emotional and psychological truth feels very authentic. The show is very good at constructing these low-key iconic moments (Geoffrey in jail is a good example; as is the scene where the guy at the team building exercise delivers Macbeth's soliloquy) that manage to tap into some very solid emotional truths.
    avatar
    affrosponge88
    Admin

    Posts : 146
    Points : 2228
    Reputation : 170
    Fav. Community Ep. : Remedial Chaos Theory
    Age : 26
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by affrosponge88 on Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:25 pm

    Slings & Arrows Week 3 Discussion



    Hello all, and welcome to Week 3 of our official Slings & Arrows discussion. This week we will be discussing episodes 5 and 6 of season one. We've reached the end of a great season of television, and now we can finally talk about the season as a whole, and these final two episodes, of course. Since we're done with S1, along with discussion of the series, we can also discuss what we want to do with the future of these discussions... The way I see it is we have three options:
    -Drop these discussions altogether and continue watching the show at our own discretion.
    -Continue with the system we've got for the second and third seasons, albeit after the holidays.
    -Continue with these discussions, but add more episodes to a week, ie. discuss 3 episodes one week, and 3 another, or set a date to watch an entire season by, and have a discussion then.

    Let me know how you feel, the only thing I'll add is all future seasons will be hosted at the new forum, due to the fact that I'd really like to fully switch over as soon as possible.

    But alas, we still have two more episodes to talk about...

    This week's episodes:

    • "Mirror up to Nature:" Geoffrey assumes the direction of Hamlet and Richard and Holly assume that a disaster is just around the corner. Oliver's ghost frees Ellen's pet chameleon and Ophelia is recast.

    • "Playing the Swan:" It's opening night for Hamlet and though Jack has shown promise, insidious words from Richard send him running. Ellen and Geoffrey finally talk about the breakdown and the events leading up to it, and if they can find their star, the show must go on!


    Let the discussion begin!


    _________________
    Good member and bad member left for the day. I'm a different kind of member.
    avatar
    UnregisteredGuyNamedEric

    Posts : 30
    Points : 1939
    Reputation : 59
    Fav. Community Ep. : Cooperative Calligraphy
    Age : 33
    Join date : 2012-11-26

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by UnregisteredGuyNamedEric on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:29 am

    These final 2 episodes of S1 are so satisfying. The whole season is one of the biggest swings from cringe-y, uncertain dramedy into catharsis and excitement I've ever seen on a show (in only 6 episodes).

    Especially the slow revelation of Geoffery. He's never precisely redeemed socially, except that he proves to be able to communicate through Shakespeare more directly than any other person on the show can communicate with anyone else. The slow dawning of this is just so much fun.

    It started back in ep 3 (I think) when he taught the guy on the Corporate Team Building Exercise to speak through the play what he couldn't in his everyday life. But while that was both fun and a little cheesy, it was just a set-up for the connection Geoffery makes with Jack, who nearly everyone else sees as shallow. But Geoffery sees Hamlet in him.

    The Episode 5 performance montage of the play, when it all comes off, is such an exciting, moving peak and a payoff of everything that's come before. The sense of protagonists beating the odds has maybe never been as tangible in a show for me, because I didn't really see it coming and then it hit me all at once.

    After it, Episode 6 is a more bittersweet but equally as touching final chapter. Everyone seems at peace, at least for a moment. The "three monologues"approach to Hamlet is pretty cool, too.

    I like Jack and Kate, probably as much as I like any Slings & Arrows couple, and especially by episode 6. I can't say Holly entirely worked for me. The show has room for a somewhat hysterical villain, but she goes a little too far IMO and is finally never much more than shrill and manipulative. Then again, her scenes with Richard are fairly entertaining, and I like basically any time Mark McKinney's onstage.

    On rewatch, almost everything in this season is both enjoyable and functional for the overall story, themes and emotions. But that basically goes for all 3 seasons of S&A.
    avatar
    Semi-bored torontonian

    Posts : 16
    Points : 1900
    Reputation : 40
    Join date : 2012-11-25

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Semi-bored torontonian on Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:22 am

    I'm unforgivably late to the party, and I haven't even watched the episodes (I'll remedy this in about 10 days), but I'd very much like to continue the discussion, in whichever format (or forum) you'd like. Personally, I'm more partial to two episodes a week, which seems like a very reasonable number, but I can live with more.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Slings & Arrows (Spoilers)

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:20 pm